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Here's why it's hard for me (& perhaps others) to love the show using Lee's "Halt & Catch Fire" as a contrast
In Foundation Discussions
RandyO
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Dec 16, 2021
I want to add to my above treatise. The one relationship in Foundation, which resulted in a disappointment, was that between Salvor and Farah. I would contrast that to Halt & Catch Fire's, Cameron & Donna. During the debut season, Cameron was portrayed as the eccentric techie/punk rocker who couldn't sit still (due to non-stop caffeinated coding marathons). In contrast, Donna was the quiet, doting wife/mother who was also a brilliant engineer but lived a simple life as a systems tester for Texas Instruments, minimizing her potential as a tech leader. And then, her and Cameron worked together, as a result of Jim MacMillan's manipulations and both women showed how totally capable they were as a duo. This relationship set up the following seasons where Cameron & Donna would challenge the 1970s/80s traditional roles of women in tech, where instead of being the 'sales support' ladies, they would be leaders in their own right. That's an ace in the hole! Now, back to Foundation. The only relationship which had an evolving meaning on the show was that between Salvor and Farah. Clearly, both women were warriors. And yes, if they weren't adversaries, they'd be fighting together to storm a castle or win some inter-galactic battle. Instead, it was just a passing phase to get to the Hari Sheldon AI to emerge. For me, that's a letdown because let's face it, starting season 2, there will have to be entirely new relationships between persons formed, to give the show any meaning. So instead of using an organic relationship between two characters to build a saga, they made it a "pit stop" and now, we're being told that the psychic mom & daughter are going to be the torchbearer for season 2. I'm sorry, but that's a tad late in the relationship process as the final 60 seconds of a season isn't enough time for anyone to care about whether or not, Gaal & Salvor are the next century's psychic kick-butt squad.
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Robotic Laws
In Foundation Discussions
RandyO
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Nov 20, 2021
I wouldn't worry too much about. Since these are schlock writers, I believe that Halima's sect can explain it well. Let me help in this task. While clones (defective or not) do not karmically attract the souls of family members and friends over the millennia... they do attract the dis-incarnated souls of yesteryear's whack jobs. Not that whack jobs can't find a home in a natural born baby but that's for another day, related to family karmic patterns, etc. We need a Buddhist theology class for that one. So for the past 11,000 years, Joseph Stalin was wandering around, looking for a body to incarnate in but found too many average offsprings of stereotypical serial killers and somehow avoided getting stuck in one, to avoid paying back the karmic debt he owes to the millions people he killed during the years 1923 to 1953 (supposedly more than Hitler but a notch below Mao). In effect, those lives would have been others hurting him than vice versa. In essence, Stalin's soul is that of the Batman villain, the Joker, the entity which cares for nothing and only brings destruction to the universe. And so he sees that opportunity when the Cleons were genetically tampered with and decided that number 13 (Yes, what numerological timing 🙄 ) was the perfect opportunity to arrive on the physical plane. And there you have it, a setup where Day's trip to the Spiral opened himself to having feelings and then, seeing those feelings get jaded when Dawn was killed and discovering that his genes weren't so identical to Cleon I so that he didn't have to follow royal protocols forever. That's when ... the Joker consciousness fully awakened and Stalin's complete soul incarnated in Day to now become ... the most notorious Emperor that the galaxy has ever seen.
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Robotic Laws
In Foundation Discussions
RandyO
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Nov 14, 2021
I'm a tech worker as well, having been in both telecom & biopharma. My point was that the basics of Asimov's three laws (plus zeroth) spanned many books, not just Foundation, so that the legacy of the fictitious US Robotics was that the robots created post-22th century (or some other distant date from now) would not reflect the human ending psychosis of WWII and the Cold War. So the mere 'pseudo code' was a barb (and nod) toward today's DoD where in effect, killer drones already exist on our world with only a remote controlled pilot around, as a fail-safe, so that a mission could be aborted w/o the higher ups having to account for a mistake to the Joint Chiefs. Yes, that room of operators could be fired if colonels and generals weren't playing CYA. If you notice a pattern on this forum, only D Thorn, yourself, and I are even responding anymore. And as D Thorn stated elsewhere, you're doing everything you can to set up a scenario (from what appears to be an askance or oblique interpretation) where Demerzel has no choice but to execute Halima. I simply don't see that. If Halima tells ppl on her home planet that Cleon cheated the test, she'd be labelled a sore loser and then, if she adds to it, saying that Demerzel was a robot, it'll look like the idiots we see on the internet, constantly harping about Michelle Obama being a man, given her upper body strength & muscularity. And I'm not even including the folks who think that JFK Jr faked his death 20 years ago and will be US President come 2030. Halima lost the match. Her entire M.O. was that cloning was an abomination towards the idea that human life comes from two parents and thus, only those offsprings have a soul. And only souls evolve. Without that doctrine in place, and given the fact that the leaders of the religion most definitely needed resources (not living on Bhutan's planterary system w/ 800K residents & plenty of rain), she would be the Fox Mulder or Alex Jones of the 12,000th century. Cleon would be better off, assassinating her a year in the future, after her boring lectures on robots running the Imperium only attracted the lunatic fringe of the fringe systems. And as far as looping this back to the terrorists who tried to replace Brother Dawn, those ppl were against Cleon because they couldn't handle the thought of someone reigning for centuries without some succession to a newer person or newer political party/organization. It was clear that Trantor was not an evenly rich and prosperous society, post-bombing, so they blamed the genetic dynasty. Even they seemed too smart to fall for some fringe world religious conspiracy theory of robots running the Palace.
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I'm not moved by Episode 8
In Foundation Discussions
RandyO
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Nov 07, 2021
@D. Thorn 'They might as well be writing a Christmas movie where the evil logical person says "There is no Santa!" and the wise mysterious woman says "Yes, there is...but you have to trust your heart." ' You're two generations late ... during our grandparents' time, that was the essence of "Miracle on 34th Street" where the Macy's dept store Santa Claus was the real deal & all kinds of hoopla arose as a result. And yeah, for a X-Mas/holiday feel good comedy, it worked. Here, it's just insulting, just ask my Mahayana Buddhist friend who thought that the premise was lame. And yes, in sects of Buddhism, like Japan's Shintoism, consciousness can exist anywhere, not just confined to a specific corporeal incarnation of a person born out of one father and one mother ... ala the Doctrine of Cleric Zephyr Halima, who's acting like the Ms Know-It-All Pope of interstellar space's neo-Buddhism. 'Here they're asserting that cloning is somehow equal to making xerox copies (a xerox of a xerox of a xerox). Which means each one is going to be somehow "less than" not only the original, but the previous copy.' The fact that only a week ago, Dawn was discovering a new love and thinking of running away with her makes this whole thing look like almost a flaw in Ito's psyche than a reality. I mean I can understand a person like Halima, living on a rock, believing nonsense, but a 12000 year old android? It's like the writers want to appease two camps, the anti-embryonic cloning religious crowd but then, the rom-com believers that love will rescue the young clone from a 'soulless' existence. Sorry JJ Abrams, but your film disciples' hands are all over this.
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RandyO

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